Give Val A Break

by Michael
(South Australia)

People need to stop believing whatever the media says as if it were Gospel. Especially the right wing media which has a nasty habit of painting those with differing opinions in a bad light without giving them a chance to explain their side of the story.




I'm not only a major fan of Val's but I'm also a member of his Street Team and I view him as a friend. He is also one of the kindest, most generous people you could ever know. He recently even told me he thought my writing was great, which coming from someone as accomplished as him is the greatest compliment ever.

I hope he does run for Governor, although I hope he also continues his acting and music careers.

Val believes in equality for all, is very active in supporting human and animal rights and does so much good for the environment. He's extremely humble and anyone who says otherwise has read far too much tabloid garbage and needs to know people before they judge them.

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Feb 06, 2009
Rating
star 		Perhaps You Should Do Your Research
by: Janet, Editor

Michael,

Welcome, and thank you for joining our discussion.

I think your comments might be better received by this audience if there were some indication that you had done your own research. Instead, your second sentence makes exactly the same kind of "slap" you attribute to the "right wing media."

By the way, I have never before heard Esquire characterized as "right wing media." Since I don't read the magazine myself, I can't comment on that.

Mr. Kilmer may be all the things you say he is. But I defy you to read the actual Esquire interview, where Val fully explains his side of the story, and tell me he doesn't expose himself as a rude, arrogant, exceptionally eccentric guy who's far too impressed with himself.

You see, we read the entire interview before making our comments, because we're smart enough to think for ourselves. We don't blindly accept the excerpts from the New Mexico paper (or anywhere else) as "gospel."

We'd really like to hear from you again after you've read the interview in its entirety, and we'd like you to point out to us just where we got it wrong. Mr. Kilmer apparently said exactly what the NM paper quoted him as saying. It seems the reporter who wrote the original piece for Esquire did a balanced job of reporting what he saw and heard.

We thank you for stepping up to defend someone you feel was unfairly maligned. In fact, that's exactly what our original piece was designed to do.

Vietnam vets have been disparaged for years by those just as ignorant about them as Kilmer, and we think it's time for those who do so to be exposed for the ignorant, arrogant punks they are.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
star 		Start at home
by: Pat

Michael,
Please start at home in Australia, where you will find many Viet Nam Veterans of the Australian Armed Forces, who served well and honorably and see if you think Mr. Kilmer's remarks are accurate about them. I suspect with some small effort you will find some of these fine men and women who will be happy to educate you as to their lives before, during and after serving. I send them my thanks and my respect and consider each and every one of them brothers and sisters in arms. Semper Fi.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Two Sides To Every Story
by: Anonymous

I have read the Esquire article in question, and I also know that the media has a history of taking people's quotes out of context.

I know Val and he is not in the least arrogant or any of the other things he is accused of being. So I still stand by my statement that people should get to know him in person before they judge him, and get his side of the story from HIM and not something they read in the media.

Someone who does as much as Val does for human rights and the environment would never intentionally offend anyone, which is more than I can say for the media.

If you wish, you can delete everything I've written here as I am done trying to argue with people who simply won't listen to another side to this story.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
star 		We're Happy to Print Both Sides
by: Janet, Editor

Hi Michael,

Thank you for coming back to let us know you have read the entire article. Having done so, how can you not understand why the Vietnam veterans were offended by what he said? Or are you saying the Esquire reporter just made up all that stuff?

You may have noticed that some of those who posted here were there when Mr. Kilmer was working (on the ground!) in TOPGUN. Their opinion of him is based on personal knowledge.

We are more than happy to give Mr. Kilmer the opportunity to respond to our Vietnam vets with "his side of the story." Since you know him personally, maybe you could get past his gate-keepers and let him know we'd like to hear directly from him?

Thanks again for joining the discussion.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Chuck Klosterman Is Not Reputable
by: Anonymous

Also, I've been doing research on Chuck Klosterman who wrote that initial article on Val Kilmer, and he is not as trustworthy as people seem to give him credit for. In fact, "leaps of logic" is a trait often attributed to Klosterman's writing.

http://www.salon.com/books/int/2008/09/24/klosterman/

One assessment of Klosterman's book "Sex, Drugs, & Cocoa Puffs" is presented as such.

"I have found the metaphor for everything vile in my generation, and its name is Chuck Klosterman. Klosterman is, quite simply and almost literally, an ass."

This person is as disturbing if not more than he claims Val Kilmer to be. Klosterman has a clear bias against "liberal Hollywood" and is obsessed with only seeing the negativity of popular culture.

Esquire is also "special because it's a magazine for men. Not a fashion magazine for men, not a health magazine for men, not a money magazine for men. It is not any of these things; it is all of them. It is, and has been for nearly seventy years, a magazine about the interests, the curiosity, the passions, of men."

These same men who glorify war and belittle those who don't.

So I am not the only one who needs to do more research. Klosterman is not to be trusted.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Give Val a Break
by: CathyMc

Dear Janet,

I just finished reading the Esquire article in its entirety...what conclusions can you come to after trying to understand what comes out Kilmer's mouth?

Not only is he a Christian Scientist, which explains a lot right there, but I think he's certifiable. Nothing he says makes sense to anyone but him. Talk about a fruit loop!

However, it doesn't erase what he says about Vietnam Vets and this fellow, Michael who is in defense of Kilmer is just as clueless. One blogger just commented that we should just quit commenting to give Kilmer the attention or publicity he craves.

I disagree. I personally want to give as much negative publicity to Kilmer's idiocy as possible so that he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of running for any public office.

Check out his My Space page. All his 'friends' are scantily clad little girls who are groupies. He fancies himself an author, poet and singer. I'm not impressed.

He's only a legend in his own mind. I believe in the Esquire article he says he never developed a personality. That speaks volumes about a mentally unbalanced person.
Feb 06, 2009
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starstarstar 		Yes. Let's hear from Mr. Kilmer, PLEASE
by: Pat

I would love to hear Mr. Kilmer's comments on the original story, the reaction by us V.N. Vets, and any thoughts he has now that he knows what his comments mean to so many.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
star 		Bet you weren't there as well, mate.
by: Bob Gibso. Australian vietnam veteran.Proud of IT.

Mate,

Like Kilmer, bet you have never served a day in your life in any of our military units. Sounds to me like you're one of the very few who is defending Mr. Kilmer and his comment on Vietnam veterans.

You wouldn't know we had 55,000 Australian Vietnam veterans and that they were the most hand picked veterans to ever leave our shores. By all means, stand up for your mate, but remember it's fellows like me and millions more like me around the world that fought in Vietnam, who gave you that right to do so.

But i feel you are a lonely voice in the wilderness.

Good luck with your animal rights, Go save a whale and you and your mate Kilmer go visit the Australian war memorial in our capital, Canberra, and visit the new section there on the Vietnam war, also visit the Vietnam veterans memorial in Washington, DC, and see the PRICE we paid. It's a lot more than a ticket to see your mate's Movies.

Lest you both Forget.
Bob "Gibbo" Gibson
Aussie Viet vet
Infantry Rifleman D&E Platoon,
1st Australian Task Force Nui-Dat Nov 1967-Oct 1968
Survivor of Battle for Firebase Coral 13th May 1968
Bien Hoa Province.
TPI Veteran (Disabled)
Gold Coast AUSTRALIA.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Klosterman Is Clearly Biased
by: Anonymous

I don't know what I can do in regard to Val telling his side of the story, however, I can shed a little more light about Chuck Klosterman and why he can't necessarily be seen as a credible journalist.

In an article about Klosterman, he fully admits he is biased on several occasions.

http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmF2Y2x1Yi5jb20vYXJ0aWNsZXMvY2h1Y2sta2xvc3Rlcm1hbiwxNDAzMi8=

****The thing that has always baffled me about people's perception of my writing is the sense that I'm a very controversial, opinionated, polarizing person. I feel like I write about things that I'm interested in, and I describe why they're interesting to me. I could be negative, I guess. It's far easier to write why something is terrible than why it's good."****

****"Not really. I basically write about the things I'm interested in. Sometimes, somebody will say to me, "Because you write about popular culture, do you feel obligated to watch Grey's Anatomy?" I've never seen an episode of Grey's Anatomy. I don't know if it's good or not. It might be awesome. The fact of the matter is, I don't feel any sort of social obligation to see it. If I basically view criticism as sort of an interesting form of writing about oneself, an interesting form of autobiography, then I don't feel any pressure to have any kind of authoritative, universal voice. That kind of thing has never interested me."****

****"I remember one time Dee Snider from Twisted Sister had me on his radio show, very upset because he felt that I was trying to erase Twisted Sister's legacy from the metal historical record. And I didn't really know how to explain it to him beyond saying, "This book is not about the history of metal. It's about my history with this music. And I didn't listen to Twisted Sister. It has nothing to do with anyone besides me."****

I cannot see how anyone could believe Klosterman at face value after these statements.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
star 		Governor of Australia?
by: Are you kidding?

You just qualified for an all-expenses-paid vacation in Death Valley, CA, in the Paradise Motel, where your hero Val is holding a seminar on his recently-announced campaign to become prime minister of your country--AKA Mr.Outback.

We are sorry to have to advise you that the air-conditioning just went on the fritz, and the pool has sprung a leak, but we are sure that it will not bother you brain-dead Hollywood worshippers...
Feb 06, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		The stars are for "Gibbo"
by: Pat

Hey, Gibbo ! Great comment, and thanks for being there with us. You and your mates did Australia proud! Semper Fidelis !
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		No Rudeness Please
by: Anonymous

I'm not being rude to anyone here, nor would I show disrespect to the war veterans, so please do not be rude to me.

I'm just trying to show that Val is being maligned by someone who is misleading facts in the media and has no more concern for you than he does for Val.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Who are you, Mr. Anonymous?
by: Cathy McNeill

Quit trying to take the focus off Kilmer's remarks and twist it on to the author of the Esquire Magazine's interview as being questionable.

No one on this blog is glorifying war. They are trying to make a point that Kilmer is talking out of his a** about a subject he knows nothing about. There is no glory in war...only a sense of pride that the Vietnam Vets served their countries with honor, regardless how it affected their lives during battle and after they came home.

How easy for a coward to stand behind the name "Anonymous". As I stated before, Kilmer is a fruit loop and you are second in line behind him!
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		I've Done All I Can
by: Michael

I am not a coward, I didn't realize my posts were coming up as Anonymous.

Then again, you people won't listen even when presented with evidence that not all is as it seems. The Esquire journalist has misrepresented many facts, not just about this incident, but in many other cases.

I'm done posting here, but I feel Val is much more of a hero than a lot of people who hide behind their prejudices and mean remarks.

No, I didn't serve in Vietnam because I was not born yet. Did that not occur to anyone?

Just because people work to promote peace, does not mean they are cowards.

If the editor wishes, they can delete this entire page. You people can have your website and abuse people all you like.
Feb 06, 2009
Rating
starstarstar 		Shooting the messenger
by: YankeeAirPirate

Typical liberal-left chickens**t strategy, "anonymous." If the facts are causing a problem, trash the one/s who mention those facts.

What can't be dodged is that the interview in which those inflammatory comments were recorded was published in 2005. So, going on four years now, can anyone produce a published statement by Val Kilmer stating that he was misquoted? That he didn't really say those disparaging things in his disdainful stereotyping of The Vietnam Soldier -- or as Val would have it, the punk?

If not, it is left on its face that Kilmer still stands behind that screed. Sure, run him for Governor and watch the Dogs of War tear him to shreds.
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
star 		Pot Calling the Kettle Black
by: Janet, Editor

Michael,

I think it was pretty obvious that the comments that were coming up as "anonymous" were yours.

I hope you will come back later and re-read the conversation, and be able to recognize that both sides are doing the same thing - standing up to defend people they believe have been unfairly maligned. The difference is that one side chooses to believe what they read in one place, and the other side chooses to call that lies and believe what they read in other, less-well-known and respected media.

It's entirely possible that both sides are wrong, or that both sides are right, or that the truth lies somewhere in between.

Since you weren't yet born at the time of the Vietnam war, perhaps, just like Kilmer, you can't possibly understand something you didn't experience.

When the Vietnam vets came home, they weren't treated like today's vets. They could not wear their uniforms in public (for their own safety), they were spit on in public places, called baby killers and worse. Despite the passage of 40+ years, they are STILL being treated that way.

It was wrong (as well as inaccurate) 40 years ago, and it's still wrong today.

I'm afraid you've lost your credibility here by pronouncing Klosterman biased when the quotes you provided as proof indicate only that he says . . . (continued)
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
star 		Pot Calling (continued)
by: Janet, Editor

. . . basically that he writes about what he's interested in, and isn't particularly concerned about people's opinions of him. That doesn't make him dishonest. In fact, if he's writing only about topics that interest him and doesn't care what people think about it, isn't he likely to be MORE honest than someone who's writing to please someone else? Like an editor?

I read the links you provided, and they also indicate that Klosterman's work is well-respected in some circles, yet you neglected to mention that side of the story. Weren't you the one who said there were two sides to every story? Yet you only told one side. Doesn't that make you guilty of the same thing you're accusing others of?

And it seems you've overstated your relationship with Mr. Kilmer. First you claim the two of you are friends, and make it sound like you know him personally, yet when asked to let him know we'd like to hear his side of the story, you suddenly say, "Well, I don't know what I can do in regard to Val telling his side of the story."

Since you're part of his Street Team, let him know he's taking some serious hits from a worldwide group of Vietnam vets, and it might be a good idea for him to pop in and straighten out the problem.

Although I'm not sure there's much point.

If you read the update on the original page, a reporter in New Mexico asked Val today about his comments about Vietnam vets.

His answer: "I didn't make that statement," he said. "I have nothing but praise and respect for veterans."

That's sounds a lot like the response he made in 2003 when Rolling Stone "misquoted" him as saying that he lived in the "homicide capital of the Southwest" and that he carried a gun in his car because "80 percent of the people in my county are drunk." After that caused a bit of an uproar in his town with a population of 1400, he denied the "homicide capital" comment and claimed he was "misquoted." Rolling Stone stood behind the story.

And we all know that a politician running for office always tells the truth, right?
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Told You So
by: Michael

My final response...

Regarding Steve Tyrell...

I told you people Val had not made those comments and that he was misquoted and maligned.

Of course, you're only going to believe what you want, but I knew Val would come through.
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Whatever...
by: Anonymous

I never denied I made those other posts, I said I didn't know they were coming up under anonymous, I admit I forgot to change what was written under "Your Name". (as you did again -- sorry, I can't access that field to change it for you.)

Also, I have not overstated my relationship with Val, because although I speak with him often, if and when he wishes to make a statement it is up to him and I don't have influence over that, nor do I wish to. (Really, Michael? This quote is from YOUR blog, dated 2/16/09, AFTER you posted here: "I've not yet had the pleasure of actually meeting Val in person." Yet you tell us he's a close friend? If you believe he was "misquoted," surely you want to let him know he has a serious PR problem here, so he can take whatever action he deems appropriate.)

I merely promote Val's artistic and charitable works and keep an eye on where Val might be being maligned and report it. I never claimed I partied with him every night or anything like that. (We never said you did.)

Also, I did read the update, and already you people are dismissing it just as you dismiss anything that sounds "liberal" and accept everything that speaks against liberalism. The fact that this website is very Anti-Obama tells me everything I need to know about this site's fairness and why my sympathies are with Val. This site's purpose is to promote and protect the interests of American military families. That necessarily requires us to oppose Obama.

I'm not posting here anymore, because I feel I've done all I can and it's impossible to get people here to lose their prejudices. Exactly!

Ed. note: Michael, this is what I meant by "the pot calling the kettle black": "it's impossible to get people here to lose their prejudices."

It's also impossible to get you to see that other people who have interacted with Val Kilmer, who are not members of his fan club, deal with a very different Val Kilmer. Perhaps he's nice to you, but apparently, if you're not a member of his fan club, he comes off as an arrogant jerk.

Kilmer claims he can do a better job of being the character than the real character can, yet all of his scenes in TOPGUN were shot on the ground, because he couldn't cut it in a fighter jet that these guys fly on a daily basis. That should tell you something.

Don't you get it? He's apparently an airbag with a big ego who doesn't have time for those who aren't adoring members of his fan club.

As for your comment about Obama, you bet we're anti-Obama, because Obama is anti-America. And we'll continue to oppose anyone who wants to turn America into a socialist quagmire. We don't care for Kool-Aid, thank you.
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Val Kilmer responds
by: Cathy McNeill

RE: Val Kilmer

I have received a reply from Mr. Kilmer regarding the remark he made about Vietnam Vets. I don't feel its my place to divulge what was in the message, but I did urge him to write directly to this blog to make a statement and to the New Mexico Independent. Hopefully he will follow through and everyone can take what they want from the statement.

God Bless all of you Vietnam Veterans and thank you for your service. I've said everything I've needed to on this blog and I'm glad I had the opportunity to do so. I couldn't stand by while anyone maligns your service to country.

Cathy
Feb 07, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		We've Requested Confirmation
by: Janet, Editor

Hi Cathy,

Thank you. We've received a comment from someone claiming to be Val Kilmer, but it arrived with no way to authenticate it, so we've responded asking for some authentication before we publish it here.

Please contact me using our contact form.

If we can validate the statement as coming from the real Val Kilmer, we'll publish it as an update to the original page, so that everyone who reads that page will also have the opportunity to read Kilmer's statement.

Don't know how to be more fair than that.
Feb 07, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		Response from Kilmer
by: Janet, Editor

Thank you all for holding your comments to give us time to request verification of these comments.

Click the link to read Val Kilmer's response.
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Val Is Telling The Truth
by: Anonymous


There's a fallacy in a lot of people's thinking that people who lean to the left have no concept of honour, integrity, or loyalty.

That is not true.

Val inspires true loyalty, honour, and integrity in people, much more than people who attack him could ever possibly understand.

I'll also go on record to say I do not get paid for what I do, I do it because Val was once very kind to me at a time in my life when I was at a very low point, and he has earned my utmost respect, admiration, and dedication to my efforts on his behalf. I've seen the good he can do, and I cannot stand by silently while people continue to malign him and hamper his chances at doing more good.

I'm not just some sycophantic fan, I'm just someone who believes wholeheartedly in equal rights for all people, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, age, gender, or whatever. We want a world free of hate, bigotry, and prejudice.

That's all any of us want really.
Feb 07, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Leap of Logic
by: Janet, Editor

I think you've made a pretty big leap of logic here. I've read every single submission before it was published, and I don't think anyone has said, "people who lean to the left have no concept of honour, integrity, or loyalty." That certainly is not a belief I have.

The problem is using a broad brush to smear an entire segment of the population, which is what the Esquire article claims Val Kilmer did to Vietnam vets, and what you now infer is being done here.

Honor, integrity and loyalty have nothing to do with whether you lean to the left or right. They have to do with character.

This comment I will agree with:

"I'm just someone who believes wholeheartedly in equal rights for all people, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, age, gender, or whatever. We want a world free of hate, bigotry, and prejudice.

That's all any of us want really."

Amen.

Thanks again for your contribution.

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